Thumbs Down to County Commissioners!

By Veritas
(7 votes) (report abuse)

Ok, so I know we have a staunch Republican BOCC. NO TAXES is the mantra! So, thumbs down to the BOCC not supporting the Fire Marshall request to charge impact fees for new development! So let’s get this right....we won’t allow development to pay its own way, but we DO expect all county citizens to just nod and waive every time the Fire Dept/Dist, or Schools or the Sheriff raises levy rates, or floats a bond, or issues a new fee or lays off staff. So rather than call a spade a spade, they rely on our ignorance to just pay for "increased costs". This is so completely short sighted and devoid of leadership and fiscal accountability it’s tragic! Development is good! But let’s have development begin to pay their actual costs and stop asking the buck to all the taxpayers of the county needlessly.

Exactly byMC9 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I just flat don't trust the CCs any more to execute 'responsible' development. Such a thing is theoretically possible, but evidence thus far suggests it's improbable.
RE: Exactly bycountrygirl119 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
It is very frustrating to watch Kittitas BOCC continue to approve residential development in rural lands. The cost is never made up in taxes and levies are always required. Many peer reviewed studies have confirmed residential growth in rural lands does not pay for itself. The CC has been made aware of this many times. I can only conclude the CC has no interest in helping or protecting the people who actually live and work in Kittitas County. The recreation and 2nd home market which makes up most of the slicing and dicing of the county to date is still on the market. Why do we need more lots?
Smart Growth for the Upper County byClem9 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Check the article out I have linked to about rural sprawl from New West. It really addresses some of the problems we now have in the Upper County. For the past five years or so we have been banking on unsustainable growth. For example Cle Elum was told that by the year 2020 the population would be 20,000 between Suncadia and Cle Elum. Its not going to happen. The truth of the matter is that by focusing so much on the second home market and real estate speculation we havent been able to attract any sustainable growth in the Upper County. The school district has lost 10% of its students and the only thing that is stopping more people from moving out of the area is lack of jobs in the rest of the country. Making the upper county a more attractive place to live has gotten lost in the buzz of "20,000 newcomers".

The reality of the Upper County and future growth is we cannot count on commuters over to the west side. That market is totally dead and will not ever recover. That may in fact be worst than the loss of timber jobs. The population is ageing and bringing in retirees from other areas will be a problem unless something is done to actually "bring" people in. Other communities have actively gone after retirees. Last year it was noted when the School Bond failed people the majority of people under 45 didnt even bother to vote as did a number of our elected officials. How is that for leadership in the Upper County and apathy?

Sorry about the rant but someone should lock up the BOCC, Hinkle, and the mayors for the three UC towns for a weekend and they should come up with three ideas for revitalizing the upper county which would include raising taxes if neccessary to attract people into the county. I know its not popular but the tax rate is pretty low as it is. By the way your house wont be worth anything if someone isnt there to buy it.

http://www.newwest.net/topic/article/economic_downturn_shows
RE: Smart Growth for the Upper County byJeremy9 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
Better start with the DOE lifting their unfounded moretorium on well drilling, and a petition that was supported by 3 people. Why dont we have a vote on the moretorium, I'm positive that nobody wants it? Only a handful of people who have nothing better to do than complain about things they do not understand.

Our county will never look appealing to new people when one day you can build a house and the next day not. Without exempt wells being drilled there will not be much growth at all.
ppssst.... Jeremy.... byMC9 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
... hate to break it to you this way, but....

There's LOTS of houses already on the market that already have water/wells that aren't selling, even at deeply slashed prices. And there's even more people who would like to sell but aren't putting a sign up until things look better.

"Build it and they will come (and somebody else will pay for it)" isn't going to fix this one.
RE: ppssst.... Jeremy.... byJeremy9 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
Well there is a thing called property rights and now if you want to drill the state is stopping it. The issue is more of state trying to control a county's growth through a unfounded rule.

The director at the last Cle Elum meeting dodged the question of the state signing onto the M.O.A. They would not sign their own agreement. This makes it obvious that they had no intention on bringing this issue to a resolve.

The commissioners did put forth an honest effort to bring this to a closure, the state simply did not.
RE: ppssst.... Jeremy.... bywhatatrip8 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
Jeremy is not telling the truth. I was at the next to last Cle Elum meeting and heard Jay Manning say that the state would sign the MOA if the County dropped the request for an AG opinion. At the last Cle Elum meeting, the County had not agreed to drop the AG opinion request so there was no way the state would or even should sign. Now we know the state was right and the BOCC was wrong. The whole MOA has to be redrawn in light of the AG opinion. The BOCC is the gang that can't shoot straight.
Staunch Republican Bashing ect. in our Fine County... byAureliux9 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Of which I'm NOT one, please allow me to assure you. When WATER got out of control during the FLOODING last year, which PARTY put together a FUND RAISER and brought in around $6,000.00 which was given to Hope Source for the flood victims in our community? Oh, it was that evil bunch of Republicans.

Just for giggles and grins? Visit a meeting of the county democratic party ONCE. Then compare it with one of the packed out, active, busy republican monthly meetings. I've been to both.

IF we want to get this growth issue under control, it's going to take more than piddly little lame party knee jerk left vs. right pompous politics.

This issue is real. Find a way to present it in a way that makes it work for all of us. I don't want to see this area turn into another suburb, or instant cabin ghetto, of The People's Republic of King County.

BUT I just found 10 acres I might like to buy. It has no well. I want to build a straw bale house one of these days. Getting tired of living in an apartment in town. I don't want to buy any existing homes. I am not going to deplete anyone else's aquifer IF I get a well in somewhere. It's ridiculous to EVEN THINK about attempting to pump out 5,000 gallons a day from an exempt well, I'd never be able to afford the electricity to run a pump like that.

AND I'd hire Jeremy to drill my well. I would not check his political credentials to see if he's red or blue, elephant or donkey, or whatever.

I do not want to see the Teanaway area ruined. There has to be a better way to go about this issue and stop the political grandstanding and attempting to blow one party up bigger and better than the other.

In development and community issues in my past neighborhood I had more trouble with a democratic controlled city council and mayor wanting to dictate what was going to happen. Their big pet project turned into a major disaster that will never be fixed.

Find some positive, progressive solutions that we can all work on, and let's go forward to do something besides this constant bickering.

A.
RE: Staunch Republican Bashing ect. in our Fine County... bycountrygirl119 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
Hear, hear. I too am tired of the blue vs. red issue on all governmental levels. I hope you get your ten acres. The issue with permit exempt wells is not with 10, 20, 30 or more acre parcels. The issue is with 1 well for each 3 acre lot or 14 hook-ups on one well for every 20 acre parcel-the cluster plat development. Major re-zones from FR20 to rural 3 or ag 3 have created over 5,000 lots in rural lands. That is what got senior water rights users very concerned.
RE: Staunch Republican Bashing ect. in our Fine County... byMC9 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
Like you, my vote swings both ways. But the point is that there's some obvious irony in people who preach 'no new taxes' and 'personal responsibility' that then allow developers to operate in a way that ensures the rest of us tax payers will have to pick up the tab for the logical consequences later.

Are we to not question the dissonance between ideology vs actions in our elected officials?

It is VERY common in other counties in this state for developers to pay impact fees, so it's not like what's being suggested is radical or unfair or partisan.
P.S. byMC9 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
History has proven that folks from either party can be bought off, schmoozed, etc. As you've said, basic honesty is the highest issue... which is why citizens should keep track of where and how the money goes.

IMO the devil has 2 suits to cover every occasion: one red and one blue. :)
get a clue bycountrygirl119 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
There are more than 3 people who support the moratorium. As far as it goes the people who did the petition were exercising their LEGISLATIVE right. You may not agree with them but as far as government in this country goes I'm glad to have the right. Remember the DOE denied the petition and attempted to work with the CC, we know how that worked out. Without doing the blame game and BEFORE the petition was even thought of, the DOE had requested the Kittitas County CC stop approving the intense development in rural lands that depend on exemlt wells. The speculative land rush in Kittitas County has done more harm than the exempt well closure.
RE: get a clue byAureliux9 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
I got a clue! I'm not a speculative land rusher. Not even a land grazer, but I'd like to pop a well into 10 acres that I want to buy. There isn't even one tree there to cut down, it's all bitter brush and rocks.

Somehow I appear to have been lumped into a group of speculative land destroyers and water abusers though.

Wonder why we have a staunch bunch of republicans attempting to work for the county? I know who I'm voting for in this next election and "I" do NOT have to go by party. But I do not believe there's one dumpmocrat that is going to get my vote this time around.

Wonder what Dixie Lee Ray would do if she was around? I liked her. Always enjoyed Warren Magnusson and Henry Jackson, too. Where did decent hard working HONEST democrats like that go? I miss them.

A.
RE: get a clue byClem9 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
Aureliux, Nothing wrong with the hay bale house, well, and maybe living off the grid. I have neighbors that do exactly that. However often times its not quite as cheap as people think. Its also rural sprawl especially when trips to the stores and services are several miles away. I really think you should think twice about that. If the real estate continues down it will soon be possible to buy a house in Cle Elum with modern water, sewer and NATURAl GAS for less than $100,000. Your rural lot at maybe $60,000 or more plus your well at $30,000 and all your gas getting around will be more expensive. There is something to be said for being hooked up to modern utilities including water of the highest quality and did I mention NATURAL GAS which this country has a 600 year supply of LOL...

By the way if real estate and development was such a hot market either a well driller, developer, the County, or maybe a group of Realtors would have bought some water rights and kept our "red hot" real estate market going. After all it would have paid for itself. Last time I checked their were about 600-700 houses and pieces of property for sale in the Upper County that were listed.
RE: get a clue byJeremy9 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
If there were so many people supporting the unfounded moratorium why didn't they stand up at the meetings or be public about it instead of hiding behind screen names.

Its easy to criticize people while hiding behind a made up name. If you really believe in what your doing its easy to be public about your view.

At all of the meetings the vast majority of people who spoke were not in support of the moratorium or the 3 person petition. Last time I checked most petitions had more than 3 signatures.
RE: get a clue bywhatatrip8 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
You can drill a well as long as you purchase the water rights to offset the withdrawl. Also, it is very inexpensive to pump 5,000 gallons per day. I've also been pushed into eliminating one party and favoring another. Given the behavior of republicans over the past 8 years and particularly in the past 8 month, I will never vote for another republican. They have been taken over by the radical right wing "christian" mob.

I am sure the elected officials don't deliberatley try to destroy our quality of life but they do adhere to an ideology that is destructive to quality of life and hard on the taxpayer's pocketbook. CleElum1 hit the nail on the head.
Local Republicans byClem8 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
Whatatrip, I wont say that I wont vote for another Republican. The local Republican Party does seem to have been taken over by the religious wing of the party. Very disappointing. I think Paul Jewell kind of got off on the wrong track with the moratorium. Disappointing considering how narrow his election victory was. I watched the Upper County meetings a few times (tv) and he seemed to be on top of things although taking the wrong tack. Jewell also received a campaign contribution last year from prominent Democrat Martin "Jamie" Durkan. So there is hope there, plus I think our Republican friends with their talk about creating and bringing jobs to the County have their work cut out for them.

The last Tea Bag meeting was organized by churches and was called "One Nation Under God Tea Party". I am really surprised that in Kittitas County one of the school boards hasnt made an issue out of creationism and required the Ten Commandments be posted in classrooms.

I had to edit this. Jamie Durkan doesnt call himself a Democrat but a "Dinocrat". He gave $50,000 to Dino Rossi in 2004 to fight the election results. Dino of course took large sums of money from the BIAW. Jamie gave $500 to Paul Jewell. As they say you just need to "follow the money".
never did A. bycountrygirl119 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
lump you into the speculative land purchaser group. I don't care about party lines, I just want good, honest government. Sorry if I gave the impression I was a staunch party member.
RE: never did A. byAureliux9 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
Thank you, appreciate your nice comment. Now let's please think together for a moment, if that's OK? I have had the opportunity to meet with and talk to quite a few leaders in our fine county. Are there problems and differences of opinion on what to do around here? Yes, of course there is...

BUT? Do these individuals that you disagree with get up every morning and try, with their first waking moment and throughout their day, look at ways to destroy their neighborhood and reduce the standard of living AND the quality of life for everyone here, including themselves?

There MUST be a common ground to meet on and work from that will meet ALL our needs for good well planned constructive tasteful growth in this fantastic county. And I can't believe that what passes for a county council here wants more rabbit hutch plywood instant cabin ghettos for rabid drunken weekenders to plunder at will.

I LIVED in that little project in Cle Elum by the golf course. Could not WAIT to get out of there. I've driven through every neighborhood out there in this county and some should not have been allowed to exist.

Then there's one that has a covenant that will not allow anything to be broken up smaller than 20 acres. I really rather like that approach but even that isn't perfect.

So what IS the answer? Cranking around about the water issue isn't going to do it BECAUSE the wells WILL still go down, it will only end up costing a LOT more money and a new utility will be created with the metering.

So I wouldn't depend on the water issue to hold up for long to keep the slash, bulldoze, and burn developers from tearing the country apart.

Has anyone looked into what it takes to petition the Feds to turn it into a National Park?

A.
Good points A byMC9 months ago (6 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
"Do these individuals that you disagree with get up every morning and try, with their first waking moment and throughout their day, look at ways to destroy their neighborhood and reduce the standard of living AND the quality of life for everyone here, including themselves?"

This is a question I've pondered a lot. In the last 15 years a few people (developers et al) have gained so much (money), while so many (the rest of us working proles) have lost so much quality of life with the loss of nearby hunting, hiking, etc. opportunities.... I honestly wonder what their thought process is. Maybe there's benefits to what they're doing that I don't see? Maybe they have enough money to move on to someplace with a better quality of life after they've made some money here? I don't know what the answer is.

And the REAL head scratcher for upper county is that most of the people I see coming in to town and spending money on the weekend are specifically seeking that outdoor experience that appears to be shrinking fast. I would have thought that folks in leadership would have figured this out and fought to protect the upper county's bread-and-butter early on. For example, the county could have maneuvered early to protect viewsheds, rec corridors, etc. on the ridge while still allowing some building. Instead it's all solid rectangles with 'no trespassing' signs.

Most small business owners in upper county will tell you that snowmobilers keep them alive through the winter. A bad snow year is very bad news for them. I don't snowmobile (no particular interest, can't afford it anyway), but I would expect county leadership to pay attention to this phenomena and find ways to better accommodate it. Unfortunately the development plans that have arisen so far don't seem to take snowmo access into consideration, and it looks like a continual jury-rig each winter to keep access open from town onto the ridge and beyond.

So... all that said... I can't for the life of me figure out where those with their hands on the steering wheel are taking us and why. I'm open to them earning my trust back, but experience thus far has left me mighty skeptical and a little bitter.
But? byCleElum19 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
"BUT? Do these individuals that you disagree with get up every morning and try, with their first waking moment and throughout their day, look at ways to destroy their neighborhood and reduce the standard of living AND the quality of life for everyone here, including themselves?"
What they do is: Whatever is most beneficial to themselves financially. The rest of that stuff you mentioned that happen's is: "Collateral Damage".
RE: But? bycountrygirl118 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
It is not a thought that enters their mind. The sole focus is to sell, sell, sell. This keeps the prices of properties going up but has nothing to do with actual value. In many cases once they've made their money they do move on.
I'm as puzzled as MC, the CC seems to be selling upper county down the toilet. Tomorrow is the public hearing on the compliance isssues with the comp plan. This is EVERYONE's opportunity to say what you want to see happen in the county. On Nov. 10th the public can review and speak to the proposeed comp plan amendments.
The County is really in a fix byClem8 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Countrygirl11, Many of us are now stuck between that "rock and hard place" in the Upper County. Because of the uncontrolled development and now the "crash" we have seen many of our friends, family members etc impacted. The speculation got out of hand and what was controlled growth with people generally working nine months a year which was tolerable has now ended up with lots of people out of work. For that reason I would love to see some development. Roslyn would be the perfect town for some dense development. I know Suncadia has proposed such a development in Roslyn but its mostly a dream . Now we have "City Heights" and "Teanaway Village".

My position is dont allow any more 3-80 acre division in the County. We have enough right now to last for 100 years-seriously. Teanaway Village I think is worth at least looking at but the same project could be built in Roslyn which would make more sense. A project of 300 or so town homes and small detatched homes would totally rejuvenate Roslyn.
Get a Clue byJeremy8 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The state still does not have a water rights bank set up yet. Purchasing water rights is harder and more expensive than it sounds.

People use on average 100 gallons a day, 80 percent goes back into our aquifer.

If you dealt with this subject day to day you would know most wells in the upper county are deep and produce 1-5 gallons per minute. DOE is in charge of holding people to under 5000 gallons per day, not the county. DOE has been and is in charge of allocating water rights not the county. Its hard to understand if you just started getting involved in the issue, but you also need to show actual facts supporting your claims for impairment. Potentials and what ifs don't mean anything without facts and evidence and the moratorium crowd has neither.

If you claim to not like the current situation, why then give more responsibility to the state?
RE: Get a Clue byMC8 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
"If you claim to not like the current situation, why then give more responsibility to the state?"

Because the county can't even be trusted to hang on to a binder full of papers?
Get a Clue byJeremy8 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Its the DOEs job to deal with the waters of the state, not Kittitas County. DOE is trying to push off its duties to a county and wanted to re define a state rule.

Remember still to this day there has not been any claims of impairment with documentation concerning Kittitas Countys exempt wells. Last time I checked you still need evidence when presenting an valid argument.

Disliking development and political agendas are not enough. This moretorium will continue to damage our economy until the state decides to lift it.
byclarifier8 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Why should a senior water user have to prove anything? It's the new user that has to show they have a right to use the water. The state has the authority to manage water supplies. Drawing water from the pool that belongs to someone else is like moving the fenceline - something to fight over.
byJeremy8 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
Actually its the one claiming impairment that has to show it. Ask the state.

Thats the problem there is no proof that new users are taking any water from senior water right holders, its all based on potentials no evidence.
Local GOP and Clem's Comments byManweller7 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Clem,

I read your post suggesting that the local GOP has been "taken over by the religious wing of the party." As the chair of the local party, I would like to let you know we have all facets of conservatives represented in the party. We do indeed have people for whom social issues are important and hold those views for religious reasons. But we also have Libertarian-Republicans, small business Republicans, agricultural Republicans and limited government Republicans.

I would be interested in what votes, endorsements, or contributions we have made that lead you to believe that we have been taken over by the religious wing? I am not aware of any religious justifications Commissioners Jewell, Crankovich,or McClain (or our Treasurer, Assessor, or Clerk) have made for any vote they have taken.

Regards,

Matt Manweller
RE: Local GOP and Clem's Comments bylordoflys7 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse)
Yeah. I find that a bit hard to swallow. Nationwide, fanatical conservative Republicans have claimed the one God, as have fanatical religious members of many faiths around the world. Locally, the local Republicans make no claim, nor do any other political group that I know of. My only peeve with local Republicans is that they are not progressive, nor have they shown any ambition to work together with the State...on any issue.
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