Downtown issues

By Ingmar
(1 votes) (report abuse)
A lot of CWU students claim there are not enough entertainment options aside from partying.
Is Ellensburg's nightlife a major cause of concern or is it about what can be expected in a small college town?

Read the Chelsea Krotzer's article in Saturday's Daily Record and weigh in with your opinions here.
bymoonlightmile9 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I think this topic ties in nicely with 'Should Marijuana be Legalized?'

In my opinion there would be much less vomiting and vandalism if people were smoking (or vaporizing) mother nature in hookah bars than drinking themselves into oblivion at taverns, etc. Liquor sales would plummet but bar snacks sales would soar.
eburg nitelife byC.Nitall9 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
This is no cause for concern- decades ago (in the youth of our current city fathers) there was a heck of a lot more drunken bad behavior, not to mention worse violence. As a downtown neighbor, I think today's college kids are pretty tame, and I wonder where all this vomit is? I shop downtown regularly and don't see any evidence- although the cigarette-butt litter has cerainly increased since the indoor smoking ban took effect. Maybe a few more public ashtrays could help with this- bar and restaurant owners might help here, outside their establishments.
I'm sure there is some poor behavior, which I miss out on being an older person and asleep by 10 most nights, but until we get rid of the lunatic notion that kids are going to wait for some "magic birthday" to start trying to sample "adult pleasures", we're going to have more trouble than we need.
And if I WAS one of those kids today, and I felt myself about to vomit, I just might try to find Larry Nickel's porch, just on General Principal.
bydrkknightt9 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
What happened to all the posts on this subject?
Posts are in the newspaper byClem9 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
There are currently 25 posts. Check the news tab at the top left and on the news page look under the current discussed items.
lets think a little harder about this... bygorilla in the room9 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
So... the college students are being blamed for all the ruckus. Hmmm...has anyone considered Rodeo weekend, High school rodeo (parents not kids), concert go-ers passing thru, Winterhop Brewfest, Wine tasting weekend, Jazz in the valley and all the other events that happen during the year?

Stop placing all the blame on college kids! They are not fully responsible. Bartenders do not have the mind reading capabilities to look at someone and say..."you were at the bar across the street and your blood alcohol level is over .08 so no booze for you!"

It kinda makes me sick to see that so many people won't even post on this website anymore because of all the vomit of the week photos.
RE: lets think a little harder about this... byEburgCitizen9 months ago (5 votes) (report abuse)
I have to say I am in the college demographic and do find that it is maintly college students who are causing the ruckus downtown. Yeah Rodeo weekend gets rowdy... but honestly, its way worse on a regular night when school is in session.

I also think bartenders don't need to read minds... they need to observe with their eyes. They do have the right to not serve someone in their establishment and its a rare occurance in this town!
Town Gown Problem byClem9 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Its part of a small town to blame outsiders and in this case students from the college for part or maybe all of the problems in a community. I have lived in Eburg and now in the Upper County. I have had long time residents tell me that there was no crime or drugs in Cle Elum and they were introduced by outsiders and all the druggies and thieves are all from outside the community.

Not much different in Ellensburg either. I am sure the Kittitas County Jail is packed with college students. Everyone born and raised in the county has the highest moral standards and its only the outsiders that bring the county down...LOL.
RE: Town Gown Problem byMC9 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
I've heard it too, Clem. It's an old saw.

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint" (Hesiod, eighth century BC).

P.S. stop by next week if you can
Town, gown, on and on... byMaxtodon9 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Who packs the jail, yeah good point Clem. Upper county always at odds with lower county. ALways complaining about each other and name calling it's horrible.
Tired of this forum and the griping. Have a life time to move on leave the sidewalk mess to Snorfus. May post again some day. Will see.
Downtown Issues byBig Cowboy8 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I have lived in Ellensburg for a good number of years, now. This is a wonderful town and the people here are very welcoming. My only complaint is that the college students are ruining downtown for the rest of us, who have chosen to live here permanently. I hardly ever go into town at night anymore due to the noise, hollering, urine and vomit in alleys behind bars. I have lost count of the number of times that I have gone into the restrooms at the Horseshoe or the Oak Rail only to be surprised by college kids copulating on the sinks or in the stalls. If I have visiting company from another state or country, there is nowhere in the downtown area that I can take them. Thank God that at least we have the American Legion Club Post 8 and the Mooose where this sort of behavior would never be tolerated. City officials and downtown business owners had better get a handle on this. Downtown Ellensburg at night is rapidly resembling and smelling like San Francisco's Tenderloin District!
RE: Downtown Issues byZHawkeye8 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
Why not let the market work it out, rather than getting big guys with guns to shut all of the nightlife down? A couple years ago, I use to be part of the bar scene, and it didn't seem as high-charged as it is now. The Starlight Lounge lost my business when they started cranking the music way up after 10 o'clock. It used to be a semi-classy place you could actually have a conversation in. Lilly's used to have a (poorly advertised) comedy night, which I frequented until they shut down for other reasons.

There's definitely a demand for a few bars where you can just chill out and have a few drinks. Right now, I think The Palace is probably the quietest place to go, unless you want to go to a dive like the Frontier. When one of these businesses figures out that they need to compete by offering something different -- not cookie cutter, like it seems now -- Downtown will really improve.
RE: Downtown Issues byMiss J8 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse)
It's no surprise that 40 year olds don't like being around 20 somethings who are out to get drunk. The clubs you mentioned are primarily for war veterans and older men, which is a fine thing, but it follows that there would be significantly less drinking to get drunk at such establishments. The oak rail is indeed a dive. Is it any wonder that an establishment that has wet t shirt contests would also have bathroom fornication and vomiting? I suppose it's all about picking your venue.

It seems rather unfair to blame the college students for "ruining the downtown" as college kids spend a lot of money in these bars, supporting local business. If it weren't for the college students, how many downtown establishments would be able to stay in business?
Where to go... byMaxtodon8 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
So lets have more info on the good places with good behavior to go. Post more aobut Moose and legion post?

Want to know more about places for 40+ social gatherings for fun
Private Clubs and Self Policing byClem8 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The private clubs like Moose, Eagles and Elks all do a pretty good job of policing themselves. The fraternal organizations though have fallen on hard times. The WWll generation was big on socializing and joining private clubs, Legion, VFW etc. Bowling alleys are great places on Friday and Saturday...if you bowl. My best memory of the private clubs was going down to the Eagles about every Friday and they would have a Polka band where they would totally mangle Jerry Lee Lewis's "Great Balls of Fire." Great stuff the private clubs if you like Polka..LOL.
RE: Private Clubs and Self Policing byAureliux8 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
So, how about 50+ single types? :-)

A.
Market Forces Dont Work In Ellensburg byClem8 months ago (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The large number of college students distorts the bar scene in Eburg. The discussion on the downtown bar scene has been going on for several months. One thing that is different from several years ago is the way the WSLCB enforces the rules. It used to be that suspension of liquor licenses from 3 days to 2 weeks was common. Now infractions end up in fines more often than not. The incentive to run a tight bar is gone so overservice, serving minors, and rowdy bars is probably more common.

What would be interesting would be if the Police would release a report of calls for service, liquor violations observed, and any action taken against any of the bars. Its hard for me to believe that there hasnt been at least one report of overservice written up since the bar emphasis patrol started. A summary of what has happened since January and if there has been any improvement in the bar scene might be in order. The Mayor and Council are probably looking at something like that. How about the public?
RE: Market Forces Dont Work In Ellensburg bygorilla in the room8 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse)
What the city council wants is for all the establishments that serve alcohol is to limit drinks. 2 per customer. Period. No more after that.
Therefore, they will have to crack down on Rodeo, The winter Beer tasting and the Wine tasting.

Also, if asked, the police will release a report of violations. I am not sure who to talk to but I have seen it done before...recently too.
RE: Market Forces Dont Work In Ellensburg byZHawkeye8 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
Market forces don't work when it's not allowed to. Here in Ellensburg, it's not the college students who distort the market -- in fact, they're a big part of the market. The market can't be helped by more gov't, because gov't is the biggest inhibitor of market forces. Ellensburg has a history of not being very business-friendly, imposing ridiculous restrictions on who can and can't run a business, where you can run a business, what your business can do... to the point that government force has replaced market forces. Then, when government force isn't fixing the problems (as has been the case here in Ellensburg), the public mistakenly (in my opinion) calls for even more government force, which won't likely fix the problems, will raise costs on the citizens, and create an even worse police state than we have now in Ellensburg.

If the market were uninhibited, you might be more likely to see the "right" businesses come to the market to compete with those who are "doing it wrong." Businesses would have an incentive to control the vomit problem, so that their business would appear nicer.

In my observation, few college students really want to go to the Oak Rail, but it's the closest thing Ellensburg has to a nightclub. The market solution would be to keep government restrictions from prohibiting a real nightclub to enter the scene. Then, if any entrepeneur wanted to make some money, they could fill the demand for a ritzy place to dance and drink.
byKLH8 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
"What the city council wants is for all the establishments that serve alcohol is to limit drinks. 2 per customer. Period. No more after that."

That's an asinine solution. So you go to the Palace and get two drinks, next the Tav for two more, play pull tabs at the Frontier and have a couple more, hit the Starlight make it a double, now your drunk enough to go to the Oak Rail to get two more. You're at ten drinks and out on the sidewalk trading between bars after you get your two drinks and then the noise will increase.

A lot of this noise and rubbishy damage is because of the late night food establishments that have popped up in last couple of years. There is a reason to stay downtown after 1:45 am and loiter while waiting for your friends and food. It used to be that you' hit 7-11 or Circle K after hours for some quick and greasy drunk food on your walk home. Now they eat downtown and this creates jobs and tax revenue for the city.

A solution that is immediate, ask the businesses that operate downtown to clean their sidewalks at least once a week in the morning. Hell, I know a lot of the businesses can't seem to manage a snow shovel so expecting them to sweep or hose down might be asking too much but the business owners don't seem to be the one's complaining. The five minutes spent cleaning and it's cost will return to them 10 fold just in that day's sales. Also, it will get more than the late night rubbish off the sidewalk along with it goes the dirt, dust and grime that comes with operating in windy downtown Ellensburg. Your storefront will look nice and presentable, everyone wins. Trust me I know we do it once a week.
bygaeista8 months ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I would just like to point out some important issues. First is that Mr. Nickel can talk all he wants about the integrity of old buildings, and yet he wanted to tear one down! Furthermore, Mr. Nickel decided to live right by a bar...What do you expect Mr. Nickel? Give me a break. Except for some apartments on upper levels of downtown buildings, there are very few houses located right next to the bars.
Secondly, I would like to say that I am both a college student, and a local. I understand everyone's frustration at the behavior of the college students, at times it is despicable. However, they are not the only ones who display bad behavior. So shame on all of you who are pointing your fingers in one direction. The college students are not "ruining" Ellensburg, they've been coming here for decades. That's being melodramatic. For those who believe that the college students are the ones supporting this town...you are right and wrong. The main problem that Ellensburg has ALWAYS had is the division between the college and the town. It is high time for this to stop, and for both to realize the mutual benefits of both. Also to figure out a way for the relationship between the two to improve. Stop pointing fingers people, it does NO good. The students get bored because there's little to do. Bring in more business by creating events that everyone can enjoy and benefit from.
Having Fun Yet? byAureliux8 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
OK, so I wandered in and my, my, my, what a surprise! More of the same, and more of the same.

DID get in to the TAV again, finally, for a wonderful Friday night special on their spectacular prime rib. AND I did most certainly try their margarita. Was OK, fairly standard, not too strong, not too special. Will have another in there some day.

Still think the best margarita in town was at Pearls on Pearl... Was called, "Ron's Margarita" AND I know how he made it, and I can do one just as good.

Will mention, again, that I live right smack in the middle of an awful lot of CWU students. They make a little noise, get boisterous, have fun, and act like young adults. I'm more than twice their age. And I don't have any problems with any of them.

Have been offered a beer on several occasions. Many offers of a round of pool when I'm out wandering around unattended doing laundry or whatever. GREAT KIDS.

So rant and rave, bicker and complain, post and repost... Have a blast. I've got a kayak AND I'm not afraid to use it... Bike too. IT'S summertime, and I have a life.

May post in here again, may not for a while. Would rather be out on the water in a 'yak any day.

A.
Its Two Bars That Cause All The Problems byClem8 months ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I think its ridiculous having a drink minimum but it still appears to me the owners of two of the bars arent doing enough to "cool" the bars down after midnight. I remember a number of years ago being over at the college and a band went on past midnight. The police walked over and pulled the plug out and turned the light on. Guess what party-over. The big question why the owners of the two offending establishments havent knocked off the party well before 2am.

I cant believe six months later we still need to bring Dalton to Ellensburg. If this town had a decent "cooler" we wouldnt still be talking about this stuff. Heres Dalton once again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojPVOhHhwnk
RE: Its Two Bars That Cause All The Problems bymoonlightmile8 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
Yep. Mr Swayze can't be beat. No one puts Baby in a corner OR over serves. Great clip, Clem.

I watched the city council meeting on June 15 and did not hear the 2 drink maximum mentioned, although it's come up in postings on KV Talks. Is this an assumption or based in fact?

I thought council member George Bottcher had a fine idea in hiring a crew to clean up. I also appreciated Council woman Fennelle Miller's energy in wanting the issue addressed and wanting citizens treated equally in council meetings and by the police. She has the courage of her convictions. I agree that the bars need to begin winding things down long before closing time.

Vomit is vomit. Doesn't matter if it is a college student or local doing the ralphing. Same goes for vandalism.
2 drink minimum (edited) bygorilla in the room8 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
This was repeated to me from a business owner who heard it during a discussion involving 2 city council members. The other opinion of these people was to turn Ellensburg into a "dry" town. (never happen!)
To KLH:
yup...asinine. You said the exact thing I said when I heard about that. Part of the problem I saw was that noone can "monitor" how many drinks/beers a person has in their own home before they decide to hit the town.
To gaeista:
yup, you have put it very well about Larry. Hypocrite comes to mind. Annoying, loudmouthed, holier than thou, greedy hypocrite.
To Aureliux:
Glad you liked the marguerita. You are a rare breed indeed who enjoys and has little to no problems with college-aged people. I don't either and I wish there were more like you in this city. To Clem: I do disagree with you on the whole Patrick Swayze butt-kicking cooler person. That would only cause assault charges constantly and Larry would be mad that people are fighting in the street.
And finally, to moonlightmile:
I'm thinking it was just an idea that was thrown on the table during a brainstorming session. I really doubt anyone was taking it seriously.
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