Citation Please revised.

By snorkus
(2 votes) (report abuse)
Citation Please revised.
Over Service and Noise in Downtown Bars byClem November 23, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Interesting we also have the discusssion on the Liquor Control Board and over service by employees. If you manage to watch all 6:17 of the video you will see a customer coming out with a bottle drinking which would be a liquor violation. Its also a bit noisy but I think the noise complaint is weak because the complainant is on the sidewalk downtown and not at home on his property.

I do think though that the police have an obligation to at least take a complaint and if the complainant wants to press the matter forward it to the prosecutors office. Most cities dont have ordinances on the books to go after establishments for being a public nuisance. The City of Seattle does and they have gone after some of the nightclubs and shut them down based on numerous complaints, fights, DUI's, etc. I think the best way to go after a bar would be through the complaints to the Police and Liquor Control Board for over service and serving to minors. If the LCB were to hit a bar up three times or more in a one year especially with minors on premesis their license would be in jeopardy.
RE: Over Service and Noise in Downtown Bars bysnorkus November 23, 2008 (4 votes) (report abuse)
Following is true and we have city of eburg documents for proof:

This man lives in the Pearl st building apts same building same block. The man showed cops his broken window and film of it being broke. Prosecuters etc wont follow up and claim not enuff evidence then declare this man to be "a non crdeible witness" and "do not take his complaints or issue citations, never has evidence and not credible". Essentially castrating his civil rights, due process, etc.
This film proves (along with official letterhead documents) that this man's rights were violated big time. So now no matter what he uses the "system" for...it is muted already. So the noise ord. is only a fragment of the problem. When I saw the evidence before my eyes I had to go over it 2 times thinking "nah this cant be what I think it is". Basically city of ellensburg has made it so that this man cant use 911 services etc because a prosecutor has deemed him not credible.

THAT is a prosecutor's desicion to make - UNDER SPECIFIC CRITERIA - this doesnt fall into to that criteria so why?
RE: Over Service and Noise in Downtown Bars byquite1 December 02, 2008 (5 votes) (report abuse)
It seems as though this gentleman has a grudge with everyone.
Definitely Small Town Politics byClem November 24, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Thats what it sounds like to me. I would still complain to the Police, Chief of Police, and the Mayor. The other area I would look would be the Washington State Liquor Control Board. If its possible find out how many DUI's have come out of the establishment in the past two years. I think anything more than 4 would indicate a big problem of overservice. If a business gets hit with a suspension or two it will usually force the owner to change the way he operates. A couple of things they can do is to target certain customers and ban them from the premesis. The other thing they can do is close earlier. Things get kind of nutty between 1230am and 2am.
RE: Definitely Small Town Politics bysnorkus November 24, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse)
Exactly. Grudges etc are grudges etc, but those who are city cops or officials MUST put that aside to administer justice. Otherwise they are usurping this man's liberties. 30 dvd copies made and distributed to all those you mentioned above, ... and a few outta-towners.
Thats only 1 example bysnorkus November 24, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I had a small contract job to do for a storage unit. They wanted all the items in unit "X" appraised and liquidated since it was years in default; and all proceedures followed. A man drove up to the unit as I was working asked me about "his friends items" in it. Well turns out that X was the unit they would break into other units from and stash the goods there as well. Anyway the man drives off saying he'll call storage unit get it staightend out.

The next morning I go to work on it, chain/lock cut. I open it up and the entire 2 story filled unit was EMPTY. Hypos laying all around and empty mountain dew bottles everywhere inside.

I gave cops the mans liscence plate no., description etc, show them where there are clearly prints, hypos, cans of pop etc.

The cops confir a while and come back saying they wont file a report etc because "its a civil matter"(?????).
oh please... bygorilla in the room November 26, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I am guessing that none here know that this is a set up.

The camera is pointing into the beer garden. When people exit into the beer garden with a bottle in their hand, it is NOT a violation.
RE: oh please... byhippie girl 5 November 28, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse)
Thank you Gorilla for pointing out that walking out with a beer to a beer garden is NOT a violation!
beer garden bygorilla in the room November 29, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
your welcome. Just wanted people to know that it seems someone has a grudge with this particular establishment.
Beer Garden byeburg mom December 06, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Yes, this is the Beer Garden of the Oakrail, not the street or sidewalk, you cannot enter or leave the establishment through the beer garden. It is not a violation to have a drink in the beer garden, it is part of the bar not the public street. This is a set up. If you want people to respect what you're saying use the truth not tricks.
RE: Beer Garden bysnorkus December 15, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse)
YOU said it was a beer violation - I NEVER HAVE. Thank you for pointing out it IS part of the establishment with no exit to public street/sidewalk - it was alway about the noise and alLowing patrons to smoke ON PREMISES. SO NOW ... is it still a set up or you just trying to "make up stuff so you wont get in trouble" (indicative of guilt btw).
NOT GRUDGE bysnorkus December 14, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
ITS THE LAW and CODE VIOLATIONS - if I GOTTA HAVE THEM SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE. Businesses are NOT SPECIAL! So WHAT the Coke Rail (as the Oak Rail is locally known as at CWU) brings in a few $$$ for the city, you cant buy your way out of whats right. So lets loof at the FACTS:

FACT - oak rail over serves and serves the already drunk.
FACT - loud noise/music can be heard for 2 blocks consistantly
FACT - people (who as a result of visiting oak rail) walk down Pearl st. stealing puking vandalising and harassing people.
FACT - oak rail REFUSES to co-operate and follow the codes/laws of Ellensburg, Kittitas COunty, and WA State; even refusing to do something as simple as closing a door completely to stop noise.

Nothing about grudges there - they are simply VIOLATIONS. Violations that EVERYONE ELSE MUST FOLLOW AND SO WILL YOU.
OK You Got Me, I'm Impressed! byAureliux December 14, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Now I can't help myself, at the next possible opportunity I am going to the Oakrail and check it out. I haven't had my one margarita in a very long time and I have never tried on in there, so ready or not here I come.

AND I will give an accurate in depth report of what I witness while I'm in there.

HAVE been around town for a GOOD many years and I have NEVER heard it referred to as the coke rail. Suppose there are a few things I haven't heard and don't know around here, so I will just have to go find out for myself.

But it was a nice twist of tact (less behavior) to try throwing out that little slam on their beer garden! Now I'm really inclined to believe in everything you write about, please keep up the good work!

Keep it up! Someday you might get hired as a real journalist!

A.
RE: OK You Got Me, I'm Impressed! bysnorkus December 14, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse)
Actually the garden thing isnt about the beer drinking. Smoking on the premises of a public establishment. Not 25 feet away from the premises. but thats 2ndary to it showing the noise levels when the doors are open/closed which is part of the main focus here.
Impressed Too byMaxtodon December 14, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Have to check this out investigate these violations more closely. Never had a drink in there now it's time to change that real soon.

Sory my spelin can be so bad! Thanks for the heds up Dorfus!

May have to find A around and see how one of those margarita things works.
And Then I Suddenly Woke Up... byAureliux December 14, 2008 (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
In the middle of a dream. There we were, all in a lifeboat. As most of us struggled for survival, and bent our backs to the oars to provide action towards safety for everyone, one nasty negative little p__s ant in the back decides what we are doing is wrong and starts drilling holes in the boat.

My little visit to the Oakrail is getting closer, and closer. Glad to hear I may not be the only one having their first visit.

Good job, snork.

A.
SO bysnorkus December 14, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
you pick at things that are NOT part of the focus, and ignore the parts that are, and even when evidence is shown and explanation given (re smoking on bar premises) still you refuse to accept. lol well done!

Perhaps some people dont care about how a business affects the local town? You know LIKE THE JAVA JIGGLERS everyone thought was so terrible. lol How DARE they objectify women, which is certainly more life threatening than DUIs, stumbling down streets vomiting vandalising and stealing from the community.

I did not create the laws/codes I just have to live by some and try to change others. DONT SHOOT THE MESSENGER - I didnt violate the laws/codes - they did. So my question is this: Why am I attacked at all?

Let me tell you what happend last week: Standing outside Pearls on Pearls with camera and pretzls on hood of my car talking to a guy. A drunk kid and his drunk girl for the night - right in front of us - grab camera and pretzls. We stop them and had to surround the idiot just to get them back - then down to the oak rail they went.
RE: SO byCleElum1 December 14, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse)
You have got to be kidding, grown men with nothing better to do than stand around outside of bars with a camcorder and pretzels. OMG !!!! How (IMO)pathetic is that!?! Get a life or get some help, PLEASE!?!
Never went to Jigglers byAureliux December 14, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
No matter how many people talked about it, I was never impressed enough to wander over to the J.J.'s place for a coffee. Figured other responsible folks would also vote with their feet and good taste and shop somewhere else to their liking. Jennikas is still there, and I still think they are best in E-burg, so I'll get mine there.

Never tried using a camera and pretzels as bait to troll for drunks with girl friends. Looks like you did catch a pair but then you let them go? Suppose you believe in catch and release even though they weren't in the Yakima River and classified as native trout.

Do you have a license to be a nuisance on Pearl with your camera and pretzels? I d i d n ' t t h i n k s o !!! Shame on you!

But I have been in Pearls and they do, SO FAR, have the best margarita going. Called Ron's Margarita just in case anyone is interested.

How is it that "I" have been around for over 10 years and have NEVER experienced someone trying to snag my camera? I tote it around with me everywhere. Even though I do not have a license to be a nuisance photographer and pretzel dispenser within the Ellensburg city boundaries. How do these things happen?

I'm shocked and appalled.

But I am going to the Oakrail soon...

A.
Thats what guys like to do! byClem December 15, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Guys love taking camcorders and filming pretty dumb stuff. YouTube is full of stuff. Some of the more moronic stuff I have found recently has to do with air soft guns and also video games where guys recreate their favorite characters.

Snorkus I think though has a legitimate issue with the Oak Rail considering the number of DUI's that come out of the place. Also going in a bar and checking it out at 11 pm and 1 am are two different things. Most of the responsible people leave around midnight leaving the hardcore drinkers running things after midnight. After pumping out 15 Dui's in 2007 did anyone in an official capacity decide that is too many for one establishment?
RE: Thats what guys like to do! byCleElum1 December 15, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse)
While I agree that some, not all, guys love to film pretty dumb stuff, I would also tend to think that in this case it sounds to me that there's a vendetta involved.

It's common for beer gardens and outside decks to be used for a smoking area, especially, since the indoor smoking ban. Up here in the upper county the list would included but not limited to the Sunset, Caboose, Pastime, Brick, Diamondbacks, ...

As for loud music, all I can think to say is for as long as there has been live music or/jukeboxes and alcohol there has been loud music. That is what makes a party.

When it comes to over-serving, most all bars do that. Otherwise, there would be a two drink limit for everyone and a way to track people to ensure they don't move on to another bar for more drinks. Some bars are just worse than other, naturally. Then, there are those that consistently over-serve.

What I find strange is if it's that normal to hang outside of bars trying to "catch" something like drunk people coming out of an establishment that serves alcohol, smokers outside smoking when they're ban from smoking inside, or loud music from a bar, on his camcorder, then it seems to me there would be throngs of men outside of every bar with a camcorder every night of the week-year round. Not just one guy who like to stalk one bar in particular with his camcorder.
It's common for beer gardens bysnorkus December 15, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
You dont get it yet. I got nothing against anyone who owns oak rail, cant say I have ever seen or met them. HOWEVER If I was to see a drunk get in a car and take off YEAH I'm gonna speak up. Same thing here. Then the cop makes jokes about it and tells the guy to "yeah turn it up"? Damn right I will speak up. And as to the baiting...I was 1 block away from the rail when the drunks grabbed the camera, just outside chating with a pal.

SO BE A MAN or WOMAN and take responsibility for your actions. Or at least be American enuff to correct the problem as it is affecting the entire community. EVERYONE has to follow the laws and if WE have to, guess what mr.science...SO DO YOU!
RE: It's common for beer gardens byCleElum1 December 15, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse)
O.K., I'll take you at your word, you don't have a vendetta.

If all your trying to do is find drunks (which can be done any Fri./Sat. night as they come out of any place that serves alcohol)then, that is the job of the local law enforcement. That their responsibility as a part of their jobs. If your looking for a "crusade" and they (law enforcement)don't do their jobs as they should then, perhaps you should prove that. That would be an even greater service to the community.

Not all problems of the world are my responsibility, nor would I want them to be.

Perhaps you haven't been arrested because you are considered "a harmless flake", ever think of that.

By the way, IMO, you can't "mandate" morality, it's been tried, it doesn't work, ha!
aureliex bysnorkus December 15, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Here in America we have certain inalienable rights. Most from the US CONSTITUTION and BILL OF RIGHTS (perhaps you've heard of them). Photos and filming in a PUBLIC PLACE is something EVERYONE can do. Nusance of course is an arrestable offense...but I am not arrested....hmmmmm why is that? Well turns out if one has a ligit purpose doing whatever (as opposed to no purpose) and so the next time you see me filming CALL THE COPS ON ME and watch what happens.

I dont care if oak rail is shut down or does even better biz, BUT THEY GOTTA DO IT BY THE LAWS LIKE EVERYONE ELSE DOES.
bythorpi December 15, 2008 (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
your actually breaking several laws in this video. first giving a false report to the officer( the music woke you up?). Second undercover video taping of the inside of a private establishment is illegal, it falls under invasion of privacy laws. third and most importantly your audio taping of the individuals (in the beer garden) conversations is illegal, it falls under federal wiretapping and eavesdropping laws. granted you most likely wont be arrested but those people that you video taped and have audio conversations of have a bases for a civil lawsuit for invasion of privacy. do the people at the oakrail know of this video? I'll be sure to email it to them
bysnorkus December 16, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse)
lol ok, 1. I was in PLAIN VIEW of everyone 2. camera was not hidden 3. not ilegal to film in a public place 3. music woke HIM up not me and I didnt make the report 4. recording sound in a public place not unlawful 5. Oak Rail not a PRIVATE establishment it is open to the general public

Anything else?
Well, I was going to say... byAureliux December 15, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
It's been too many years since I had to defend any camera action either with or without a press pass. Seems like if I try so hard I get a headache, something about the invasion of privacy does come in if there are less than 3 people in the frame of the pic? BUT the voice thing is a little harder to handle. I know it is forbidden to record a phone call without everyone who is participating in the call knowing what is going on. 3rd party conversations recorded from a distance that do not specifically involve the person recording are also not good, and may be illegal IF I can remember anything about that. Now if there is a conversation and one of the persons involved has some kind of sound recording device, THAT used to be a different story.
There's a couple of different ways to get around these things. Record whatever and whenever you want, but don't get caught. THEN have it all transcribed into text. IF for some reason THAT gets challenged, you MAY be able to get the voice portion introduced as evidence to prove that your transcription is valid.
Maybe someone that is much more well informed than I am would like to politely weigh in on this delicate subject?
But I would also like to quietly and politely mention that if I saw ANYONE swiping a camera and being a jerk, I would most likely give aid and assistance to the victim no matter who they are including summoning law enforcement and registering as a witness to a crime IF the victim chose to press charges.
But that is just the kind of a guy I am. Maybe if I see you down there sometime, I'll whip my camera out and we'll see who has the biggest one, or something.

A.
RE: Well, I was going to say... bysnorkus December 15, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse)
I aint from Eburg but I am a resident of 11 years. An American community no matter what one is only as "good" as it people. Usually people care about the communtity they live in as I do. Thats all I am doin. JAVA JIGGLERS is totally harmless but people FREAKED over a little cleavage in a bikini top - but this crap is not only ok it seems to be condoned? A guy wants to drink himself to death - his choice - but dont take others with ya, dont vandalize steal and puke all over place - and establishments, stop overserving or serving to the already drunk. They are LAWS and I didnt create them.
check your law books again bysnorkus December 15, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
everything you stated was not accurate at all.
accurate byMaxtodon December 16, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Think we all care about our community. You have what you want to care about, it's not my bag. You probly dont care about things that matter to me as much.
Read that though what A said? I agree and would not let someone take your camera away and would help if that happened on the street where I was.
May still not be good healthy idea to papparazi drunks all the time with your video. Just my opinon though.
I Can No Longer Judge byAureliux December 16, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
This is obviously extremely important to you and while I don't agree with how you are handling it, and your methods, you are putting a lot of effort into your little crusade.

So I can't honestly wish you well with this pursuit, I will tell you that I must say that as long as you obey the law yourself I support your right to do as you believe.

And I meant it when I said that no one should take your things, or your camera and I would do whatever seems right and decent at the time if I'm present to see that your rights are protected.

But poking a cam in the face of a drunk on a Friday or Saturday night? That really is kind of like waving a red flag in front of a bull, isn't it? Or running up behind a wild predator and jabbing it with a sharp stick, and wondering why you got bit?

Take care with your task, please be cautions so you don't become a statistic, OK?

A.
RE: I Can No Longer Judge bysnorkus December 16, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse)
I have never "got in the face" of anyone so spin that one again. I am trained combat hand to hand. It is being handled this way because of constant non-compliance, and MUCH more (re: police, code enforcement, civil rights violations).
RE: I Can No Longer Judge bysnorkus December 17, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse)
KITTITAS COUNTY-SEPTEMBER 2006

BUSINESS FAILING ALCOHOL COMPLIANCE CHECKS




September
29 Oak Rail Bar & Grill 300 N Pearl Street Ellensburg
29 7-11 1001 E University Way Ellensburg
29 Central Market 201 E University Way Ellensburg

BUSINESS PASSING COMPLIANCE CHECKS


September
29 7-11 Store 112 W University Way Ellensburg
29 The Tav 117 W 4th Ellensburg
29 The Starlight Lounge 402 N Pearl Ellensburg
29 The Palace Cafe 232 N Main Ellensburg
29 The Palace Cafe 232 N Main Ellensburg
29 The Palace Cafe 232 N Main Ellensburg
29 The Palace Cafe 232 N Main Ellensburg
29 The Palace Cafe 232 N Main Ellensburg
29 Dollar Way Mart 1404 Dollar Way Ellensburg
29 Albertson's 705 N Ruby Ellensburg
29 Safeway 400 N Ruby Ellensburg
29 Arnie's Horseshoe 106 W 3rd Street Ellensburg
29 Happy's Market 207 W University Way Ellensburg
29 Frontier Tavern 710 Parkway Ellensburg
29 Super 1 Foods 200 Mt View Dr E Ellensburg
29 Flying B #27 1307 Dollar Way Ellensburg
29 Fred Meyer 201 S Water Ellensburg
29 Pilot Travel Center 1512 Hwy 97 Ellensburg
29 18th Street Deli 1802 N Walnut #1 Ellensburg


SUMMARY:18 CHECKS 3 SALES 83% COMPLIANCE RATE
ALSO since when bysnorkus December 16, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
did the drunk laws etc change from protecting the NOT DRUNK PUBLIC from drunks to protecting drunks from general public?
bythorpi December 16, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
snorkus. it is against the law to film people on private property thru a hole in the fence. when patrons enter a business they have what is called in legal terms "expectation of privacy". the tort law is "intrusion upon seclusion" look it up. you are also trespassing when you video thru this hole in the fence, even though you have not physically trespassed. any time you record a conversation without said parties consent that is unlawfull according to federal eavesdropping and tapping laws. just look it up and be carefull and you will be fine. sorry if this gets posted twice?
bysnorkus December 16, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse)
you are right about filming in PRIVATE place but it aint private place. and the rest we've carefully examined. we were not thru the gate just close to it. YES record in a PRIVATE place is wrong, it aint private tho. You cant "trespass" anywhere unless they have a "no trespassing" notice of some kind. Believe me we've checked it out completely thru. Yes consent is needed...for a private place. AND its all about INTENT.
Still tho question is bysnorkus December 16, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
WHY is there so much "support" for getting drunk (I mean drunk) at a bar and the trouble resulting from it, as it affects so many in the community. BOTH Bar & patrons are required by law to hold to a certain level of responsibility concerning booze, and when it gets this out of hand for this long...its time for the bar AND patrons to be admonished and correct the current way things are. Not a terrible bad thing, many places after years slack up (human nature that) and need to tighten things up again - thats all. I aint sayin they are beelzebub - just straighten things out and comply with the laws like WE ALL DO.
bysnorkus December 16, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Max, it dont matter who or what the problem(s) is/are. If YOU had a problem and I could assist you in it with my skills I certainly would see what I can do to help. Would and have done it for anyone, thats how its sposed to be (to me). Hell if the rail wanted my help on a valid issue I'd help them too. See all my life I rarely got help I asked for or needed - and I wont do that to someone else - even serial killers get a fair trial and a defense and I would fight for thier right to that. Hope they got life term lol but at least they got it THE AMERICAN WAY and fairly.
bythorpi December 17, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Snorkus, are you saying that the oakrail is a publicly owned business? no its not, it is privately owned business on privately owned land. having or not having a trespassing sign has no bearing on if you can trespass. If you are found on private property with or without a sign its still trespassing. their are numerous case that I can site if you want me too. If you feel you are breaking no laws by filming thru a hole in a fence onto private property then let me know at what time you plan on doing this and we can test this law out. just let me know what day and at what time you will be filming thru the hole in the fence. every thing else you are doing is fine with me, i actually agree with your complaints. ever thought about getting a decible reader and filming that outside the bar?
bysnorkus December 17, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse)
I am done arguing this point...its useless isnt it. I am sure if I do something out of line I will be made aware....legally.
ELKS MOOSE EAGLES bysnorkus December 17, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
THOSE ARE PRIVATE bars and NOT open to the general public - you have to join the club, pay dues etc.
RE: ELKS MOOSE EAGLES byhippie girl 5 December 17, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse)
Snorkis I hope that you can find other means of exercising your time and energy.

You are obviously are very passionate person, which is great! However, it's too bad that you see bars as inherently evil. That kind of attitude is what brought about the prohibition. We all know what happened with that!

I go out occasionally. Yes, the Oak Rail is one of the places I visit. I've always had a good time at this establishment. We do ladies night and dance our hearts out! It's great!!! I've seen people make fools of themselves at a number of establishments! However, I've also seen these establishments deal with these patrons in a strict, but, professional manner. A manner that protects all patrons.

As far as the couple that tried to take your camera and pretzels, that can unfortunately happen anywhere. It's called dishonest people, not just drunk people. I agree that these people are a nuisance.

I find that a majority of people really care about their community. I hope that you learn to focus on these types of people. I hope you have a Happy Holiday ,Snorkus!
Oak Rail byAureliux December 18, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Hi HG5
Good post. Don't know if I could dance my heart out any more, and if I could it may not take long... :-)
Have to agree with your comment on prohibition.
Figure out a way to get over towards this E-burg direction some time and see if we can end up at the same place one of these days.

A.
RE: Oak Rail byhippie girl 5 December 18, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse)
Thank you for your positive response.

Who knows? We could end up at The Oak Rail! Like I said before, I haven't danced there in quite some time!! :)
Still dont get it huh bysnorkus December 18, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
if a car dealership was selling (consistantly) lemon cars and someone ask for our help, a food related place and health code violations, a HOSPITAL OR MEDICAL UNIT with repeated problems, the POLICE and JUDICIAL SYSTEM; I see some problems or we are contacted about problems - action will be taken.

WE THE PEOPLE AS AMERICANS are in charge in this great republic and if WE dont stnad up for our rights and community we will lose them and more.
I'm confused... bydiggergirl December 18, 2008 (4 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Snorkus...you seem to be having a constant problem with the Oak Rail. No one wants to seem to help you. Yet I wonder if in the beginning did you ever take the time to talk to the owner of the Oak Rail face to face. I've found that most people don't realize their being a pain unless someone tells them. If you jumped right to calling the police, then I think that is where your initial mistake was made.

I've been to the Oak Rail as well as the Horseshoe and The Tav. The Tav does a great job of containing noise. The Horseshoe has a great security staff. But I would never go to any of these establishments after 9:30 pm because that's when the college students come out to have fun. Some of these students SHOW UP to the establishments drunk. So it's not necessarily a case of the bartender over serving.

Plus it's hard to keep track of where the drinks are going. When I went bar hopping with my friends many years ago (Excuse me while I take a nostalgic pause), it wasn't uncommon for one person to go up and get drinks for everyone. It's hard to cut off a drunk patron when their friends are buying for them.

Friends also present the idea that the drunk person will get home without incident. Certainly not the case when a sober friend let a drunk man urinate in the garden outside my apartment window. You're talking about a crowd of people who just recently got the right to drink legally. Responsibility comes down the road after you've made a complete moron out of yourself a few times.

I have the same problem with Wing Central. I live down the street and it's not uncommon for them to have live bands and for patrons to stand in front with the door open. After several conversations with the owner, an agreement was reached and they simply keep the door closed.

My next curious thought is the amount of time and stress you've spent on this "crusade" makes me wonder if the logical solution to the problem is for you to move to a place that is not surrounded by bars frequented by college students. If you insist on living in downtown Ellensburg where the majority of establishments have liquor licenses and serve up to 2am, you get what you deserve.
RE: I'm confused... bysnorkus December 18, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse)
Maybe I can help clear up your confusion:

1. There are laws, codes, and regs. rearding these issues MADE BY THE PEOPLE (which although incluuuudes me, isnt just me).

2. Please see the WA STATE OFFICIAL REPORT POSTED AT TOP. I didnt manufature it.

3. The old "dont like it then move away" ploy not only old but sheer stupidity - people running away and NOT taking a stand is what helped created this mess our community and nation is in.

4. Just as a pharmicist has control on thier jobs, so too does the liquor related industry. IF they CANT HANDLE THE RESPONSIBILITIES SET FORTH BY THE STATE AND THE PEOPLE - they may have made a poor decision to have a tavern etc. I am not a surgeon because I know I couldnt handle the resposibilities that go with that job.

5. RESPONSIBILITY does NOT "come down the road later" responsibility is there from the start - for me, you, them, everyone. AGE 18 you are seen as responsible enuff to VOTE, DIE IN SERVICE(s), be held RESPONSIBLE for ALL LAWS ETC, then another 3 years to prepare for the responsibilities that comes with age 21.

6. The "move out" theory - so the entire community should "relocate" so businesses can violate the laws without penalty, make a living at the expense of the community and the people therein, and put at risk the lives of any people communtiy residents or not - beyond absurd.

7. "You get what you deserve"? You cant be serious? By that line of thinking if I was shot in a store being robbed it was my fault for being in there? That I only have police protection in safe area of town? That only if I dont voice my complaints via the system set up for that purpose will I get the constitutional civil rights gauranteed to EVERY AMERICAN? HA come on get real.

The only way we will stop persuing these issues is when COMPLIANCE IS MET LIKE 15 OUT 18 OTHER PLACES DO! This isnt about "prohibition" because that was repealed, this is about responsibly following the laws in these matters and how NOT DOING SO AFFECT US ALL AS A COMMUNITY AND A NATION.
RE: I'm confused... byClem December 18, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse)
Wing Central has only had one-1 DUI coming out of its establishment during the same time frame the Oak Rail has had 23. I havent been in either establishment but if we go back to the proportionality argument does the Oak Rail serve 23 times as much alcohol as Wing Central? The Oak Rail is the top DUI bar in Kittitas and Chelan Counties.

People shouldnt have to move out of a community to find reasonable community standards. I live in the Upper County and have heard the refrain a few times from old timers if you dont like the way things are you can move.
NOT EVIL geesh stop the spins bysnorkus December 18, 2008 (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Firstly there is no such thing as "evil". More importantly I dont see anything as evil certainly not any businesses - thier business practices/behavior might be descibed by the adjective "evil" meaning the ultimate negative apex but not inherently evil as you insenuate. You are under the misguided impression I crusade like a prohibitionist - not the case at all. If you want to get drunk at your home and beat your wife (or husband) with a frozen chicken - go ahead not my or the communities responsibility - thats THIER interpersonal/legal problem. BUT when it affects the entire commnunity - in many assorted ways, and steps on mine and our rights - THEN its my problem and the problem of our community and we WILL take action.
RE: NOT EVIL geesh stop the spins byhippie girl 5 December 18, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse)
Your continuous, negative comments about drunks, makes me wonder if indeed you act like a prohibitionists. You have a lot of animosity towards people and drinking. My impression is that you seem to think all drunk people are out to harm the community. There's no doubt that this is the case sometimes. But, there are also sober people out to hurt others. In addition, there are people who go out, have fun, have drinks and don't beat each other with frozen chickens!

Diggergirl brought up some very legitimate concerns with overserving. Like I've stated in other posts, The Oak Rail is many patrons last bars to visit. Which means that by the time they've arrived, they're most likely already drunk. In addition, friends buy drinks for their buddies. Yes, this shouldn't happen. But, when a place is packed, how can a bartender watch where all these drinks go? Do they have to watch each and every patron with thier drinks? Thank you for bringing these things up Diggergirl. Do you work in a bar or restaurant?

I used to live near downtown and know all too well about the noise! However, I knew that by my living there, I had to deal with people walking (or stumbling) home and making lots of noise. But, I looked at in a positive note--these people were walking instead of driving. Even with these positive thoughts, I did get tired of being woken up all hours of the night. You know what? I moved! I knew that the bars were always going to be filled with drunks and that they'd always be noisy. Such is life.
Moving??? byCleElum1 December 18, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I always love it when I hear of someone who of their own accord moved next to farm, then complain about the smell. Moved near an airport, then complain about the noise. Move out of town, then complain about the lack of city services. Move near a bar, the complain about drunks.
College Students! bySith December 18, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Yes, I agree, why would anyone live or want to move/live in a college town and not like college students? This is the root of the negative town-gown relationship that Ellensburg does not have. It is the liberal college student, faculty, and staff versus the more conservative stereotypical "townie" / "cowboy."

How can these to very diverse populations come together to help Ellensburg? So much strife! What a shame!
RE: College Students! byMr_Junky December 18, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse)
I wouldn't call all of CWU liberal. I know quite a few people that go to college here that are the furthest things from liberal.


Clem, you talk about the DUIs at Wing Central vs. The Oak Rail.

I'd say The Oak Rail gets more DUI's because of two reasons:
1. The Oak Rail is open until 2am, Wing Central closes fairly early.
2. Downtown usually gets patrolled more by cops.
The point is.. bydiggergirl December 18, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
If you're going to live in a neighborhood that has 5 bars within a block of you, then you really can't complain about the noise. If you have a drunk person leaving the bar and trying to climb into a car, then call the police and give them a license plate number and description of the drunk. (I do and the police are always right there ready to yank the offender over.) But telling a bar that they are making too much noise and disturbing your peace and quiet is like moving to an airport and telling them to keep the planes quiet and stop shaking your house so much.

And as Sith Pointed out, you also live in a college town. To expect that the police of Ellensburg can spend the tax payers money sitting outside the Oak Rail so they can hush patrons and arrest every staggering drunk that comes out of that place is ludicrous. Especially when Kittitas County has such a problem with Crystal Meth and other drug trafficking. Rapes are a large part of college campuses and CWU has had their fare share. We have registered level 3 sex offenders living in this town and robberies occurring left and right.

But you're going to tell me that the police should drop all this to run to the Oak Rail for some puking drunk or some loud music just cause YOU chose to live near bars. PLEASE! The rest of us Americans not only exercise our rights but wised up and realized that if you enjoy peace and quiet, there are some places better than others to set up home.

Besides..if you are concerned about an establishment violating the liquor laws, why are you complaining to the police. The State Liquor Control Board is who you should be complaining to. They have the power to yank the bars license and put them out of business.

Might I also suggest that next time you get video of the FRONT door of the Oak Rail, that may make your complaint more credible. Here's another thought....if you think that all Americans should stand up and fight..then picket the Bar and start a petition. If you think the Oak Rail is such a problem or nuisance then there are probably others around the bar that feel the same way. Knock on doors and get people behind you. Why not show up at the next town meeting and pitch a hissy fit with the City Council.

Talk to a lawyer about going after the Oak Rail legally...like filing and injunction to stop them from allowing live bands to perform there or requiring that the Oak Rail put double doors on their establishment to cut down on the noise they emit.

As far as the drunks are concerned not much you can do there but report the dui's that you see. But don't expect everyone to stand behind you and see your cause. I haven't gone to the Oak Rail for the last 5 years, and I don't plan to. Their food is lousy, their drinks are expensive and after 9:30pm the place turns into a meat market of college students. But I'll warn you...no matter how hard you try to fix the problem, the only thing you will succeed in doing is moving the problem to another bar.

This problem has floated from the Ellensburg Inn, to Red Robin (when it was here), to The Mint (when it was here) and now the Oak Rail. It's not going to disappear, it will just relocate.
RE: The point is.. byhippie girl 5 December 18, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse)
Diggergirl, I like your argument! There will always be idiots that drink themselves silly! No matther what you do! If you see a drunk causing harm, then call the cops!!

I, too, fill there are more pressing issues at large! I'd much rather the cops focus on these sex offenders and drug users than arresting someone for puking on the sidewalk!! These people are a true threat to our community.

Diggergirl you're my new hero!! :)
Wing Central Vs Oak Rail bydiggergirl December 18, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Mr Junky is right. I live right near Wing Central and we know when they close cause that's when the drunks make their way home through the apartment complexes. The only time I call the cops on them is when they get in a car, get in a fight, or stand around being loud rather than going home. (Oops...let's not forget our public urinator...ah memories). Most of the time the cops tell them to go home or be arrested on the spot. Some get arrested, some don't. As long as they eventually leave, I'm fine with it. I just wouldn't want to be them when they wake up in the morning feeling like a dump truck dragged them around town.
I also realized.. bydiggergirl December 18, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
your video was shot on a Tuesday in November that followed midterm week at the college. Even I deal with excess noise and parties North of Campus when midterms are over...
RE: I also realized.. bysnorkus December 21, 2008 (3 votes) (report abuse)
lol so what? If a guy is murdered during finals its ok/expected lol? Come on thats the best you got?
You don't get it! byhippie girl 5 December 22, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
There is a big difference between loud noise and murder.

Diggergirl made a very good point by simply stating that during certain times of the year and the quarter, loud noise will occur in this college town.

I enjoy going to places that have live bands! So, if it were up to you, would you forbid live bands in Ellensburg? Don't these establishments have some kind of permit to allow them to invite bands? Anyone know?

You sure are a party pooper, Snorkus! No booze or music??? Let 'em have fun I say! (That doesn't mean get in a drunken stupor and cause harm to others!!!)
RE: You don't get it! bysnorkus December 24, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse)
NO DIFFERENCE! Violating the law IS violating the law - the PENALTIES may be different - but a crime is a crime. If you park in a handicap zone and have no sticker you get a ticket EVEN ON HOLIDAYS. Otherwise every holiday would be "anarchy day". Come on you cant possibly be this stupid, so why all the defensiveness?
RE: You don't get it! bySalvia Nation June 11, 2009 (1 votes) (report abuse)
Snorkus, you're just insulting and mean. You put people on edge, and piss them off and they don't want to help you even if you have a valid point. I bet if you changed your manner and your approach you'd make a bigger change.

It's not right that the cops ignore your reports, but if a dog crapped on your lawn every time it chased the cat away that crapped in your flower bed, would you reward it? Record the drunks getting behind a wheel of a car, and report them. Get the Oak Rail to build a secondary door out to the beer garden to contain noise and heat. put double glazed windows and sound insulation in your own place.

Mostly, stop being so abrasive. People get defensive when you call them stupid.
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